How do you view Christianity?

How do you view Christianity -- and other religions? Something to THINK about!

Wednesday, June 29, 2005

At the end of May I sent out “When People of Diverse Faith Come Together.” In the writing I made some statements, such as: “One can believe whatever he or she believes and that’s ok with me, as long as I’m given the same civility to proselyte my own convictions”; “In my faith, as a UnitedMethodist, I would not be identified as an “evangelical,” for I do not believe that any one religion holds the one and only truth with regard to salvation, nor do I hold a constrictive view of salvation for others who maybe unwavering in what salvation means to them.” A friend recipient took exception to these comments with a five (5) page essay I received from him shortly after. A few days later I responded to him with explanation of my comments and additional comments on issues, such as labels, Bible’s inerrancy, literal interpretation, religious tolerance and freedom, state/church, and some of my own experiences in Christian faith. To date I haven’t been given approval to share the essay, so the writer will remain anonymous. However, I have used excerpts (highlighted in green) from his essay which he expressed concerns of my statements, so that I could answer and further expound on why I claim these beliefs. I have added a segment(shown in border) on inerrancy and interpretation, which was not in my initial response to the questioner. I am very appreciative of the writer’s essay for it does help to more clearly identify some of the divide and shared beliefs in our religious faiths. Few people want to expose their true beliefs but I think it is essential that there be more openness of frank dialog with and respect for those that have a different belief. To quote the Religious Understanding website motto: "Study of the world's religions will lead to an understanding of religious diversity. Understanding of religion will lead to inter-religious dialogue. Dialogue will lead to peace among religions. Peace among religions will lead to peace among the nations."My response is rather lengthy so you may want to save it till you have several minutes. It follows below and also attached for those who may wantto read from Word document. As always I welcome your comments. Cornell
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To read HC’s full essay click on http://what-is-your-opinion.blogspot.com/2005/12/when-people-of-diverse-faith-come_31.html “When People of Diverse Faith Come Together”
Hello HC,

Thanks for your comments, and let me say, I respect your long and dedicated professional career in Christian ministry and educational endeavors thereof. And I’m sure you deserve accolades for your many years of community leadership and service.

In reply to your comments: I am not a Bible Scholar and not an intellectual or studious type person, but in my own humble way have searched to define who I am in God’s great and marvelous creation. I believe I also know that person.

As you I do not like labels. Recently in Sunday school we studied the “Commandments from the Back Side” by J. Ellsworth Kalas. I remember one of the things he said about our 9th commandment: “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.” (The 8th commandment in one of my Catholic friend’s Bible.) Dr. Kalas said that to put a label on anyone was to bear false witness. So maybe I should not even say “what I’m not” for one may take that I am implying another to a certain label, when in fact that I have never intended. I have often thought it would be interesting to make two columns and list all the things that would be conservative and liberal under respective heading to determine my label. Some would say that I would be a liberal, but certainly I would be a conservative in fiscal and constitutional matters. If I had to be labeled, I prefer to be known as a moderate/pragmatist who is liberal in Christ’s call to heal the broken, feed the hungry, and build peace among brothers. To whom is given much, much is expected. “2 Corinthians 9: 8 And God is able to provide you with every blessing in abundance, so that you may always have enough of everything and may provide in abundance for every good work. 9 As it is written, “He scatters abroad, he gives to the poor; his righteousness endures for ever.” 10 He who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will supply and multiply your resources and increase the harvest of your righteousness. 11 You will be enriched in every way for great generosity, which through us will produce thanksgiving to God; 12 for the rendering of this service not only supplies the wants of the saints but also overflows in many thanksgivings to God. 13 Under the test of this service, you will glorify God by your obedience in acknowledging the gospel of Christ, and by the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others; 14 while they long for you and pray for you, because of the surpassing grace of God in you. 15 Thanks be to God for his inexpressible gift!”

The point of my “When People of Diverse Faith Come Together” was to point out the potential to successfully enhance the common goal of good for all humanity through people of many different faiths/labels, such as I (and I assume you) do through The Rotary International Foundation. I take your word for David Brooks’ article being in error about the lack of evangelical’s good works. I hope you have corrected him. I know that I give to the causes of some that you point out.

In my faith when I state “as a United Methodist” I don’t mean to imply that I speak for any other members of the UMC. I am familiar with Methodist doctrine and with the scriptures you reference. I have gone through several UMC Disciple Bible Study courses and have read the bible through the years. I have attended church and Sunday school regularly for most of the last sixty some years. Further study of the word may be good for me, but I believe I know enough to witness and live the word. I believe the Bible is divinely inspired: assembled by humans in the selection of certain books to the exclusion of others --- as I believe the Holy Book is evidently inspired in it’s interpretation by man and woman (women excluded in some faiths). Therein lies room for human error. Even so, I stand in church in respect for reading of the Holy Scripture. (I don’t understand why we don’t stand at every reading in the same service; I’ll have to ask my preacher about that.)
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You Said: Mr. Cox the statement that really concerns me most is your expression "In my faith, as a United Methodist, I would not be identified as an "evangelical," for I do not believe that any one religion holds the one and only truth with regard to salvation.
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I respond: If I understand what an evangelical believes its strict interpretation of John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth and the life, and no man cometh to the father, but by me." Is this the only way to salvation? Why did the other gospel writers not include this restrictive verse; how could they have missed the pure route to salvation, put in straightforward language, if in fact it’s the only path? In our Judeo-Christian heritage, we know that God promised Abraham that he would make of Ishmael a great nation. Genesis 17: 18 And Abraham said to God, “O that Ishmael might live in thy sight!” 19 God said, “No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. 20 As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. 21 But I will establish my covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this season next year.”[1]
I am fully aware of the New Covenant in Christ for Christians and that all people are invited to come through the gate. However, to say that that’s the only way for Muslims and others throughout the world of 6.4 billion people is not for me to say, even though saved through Christ is the belief necessary for my salvation. It would be arrogant of me to tell a Jew, Muslim or Buddhist he’s bound for hell if he doesn’t confess to Christ as savor – even though I believe it’s the way for “me” – maybe even exclusive of good works (more on this later). I really don’t know about others, but God will be the Judge, for God is the only authority – omniscient God. God alone knows the truth to salvation. Call me what you will: a Unitarian if you wish. John Wesley may turn over in his grave; the UMC may excommunicate me – that’s my belief. It is my observation that the one and only-TRUTH has not even been resolved by any denomination within its members – thus resulting in ongoing splits.

Yes, you can believe what you want to believe and that’s ok with me. I respect your beliefs. That’s what I call “religious freedom.” My clever pastor along with consultation with some ministers in explanation of John 14:6 surmised that it may be possible if one believes that Christ is one and the same as God (as I believe many who interpret the scripture do believe this) – salvation through Christ is deduced to the direct path to, with, and of God – available to all who confess the “same” God of Abraham and all his descendents. Now I’m not quoting my preacher on that, but that’s what I got from his statement.
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(Your inclusion: He condescended to serve as "God with us." He said, "If you have seen me, you have seen God, for the Father and I are one." Paul the Apostle said, "He is the express image of the invisible God.)
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Religious tolerance and religious freedom I believe is of utmost consequence in this day and age. Without religious tolerance we can’t have religious freedom. Recently in the news has been public high school valedictorian’s right to express their Christian beliefs. These rights are protected by the first amendment. The rights of Air Force Academy Christians to proselyte (or impose their beliefs) have been in question: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=15381 These rights should be protected as long as one does not impose/force their beliefs on another. However, BEWARE: Eventually there will be a valedictorian out of a school of public education other than a Christian, maybe a Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim or other. Christian, Muslim (fastest growing religion), Hindu and Buddhist are the four largest religions respectively. Currently it has been reported that over 5,000 Muslims reside in Raleigh area. Just last week in the N&O appeared an article of Hindu building a temple in Cary where in the triangle reside about 11,000 Hindu. Under the first amendment as citizens they have the same rights as anyone else to make their public statements with regard to religion. So then how will we respond when a valedictorian of one of their faiths speaks freely of what their religions have meant to them? How will we react? Will we be just as adamant in protecting their rights to speak out in public? These are just a few of the weighty questions, which should give one pause that does not believe in the separation of church/state.
Your concern with first part of this sentence: “One can believe whatever he or she believes and that's ok with me, as long as I'm given the same civility to proselyte my own convictions.
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Your response: The last part of that sentence is fine, but the first part concerns me. Is it really ok with us to passively concede that it makes no difference to us that people with eternal souls hold a religious believe that has no redeeming grace in it at all? I do not mind working with people whose faith if devoid of a saving quality for the good of all peoples, as long as I am not forbidden to share with them the fact that there is a Christ who alone is the savior of all men. (John 3:16)
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Redeeming grace through Christ is of course a cornerstone of Christianity. It’s the Sustainer I do not concede. My Emmaus Walk renewed my commitment to Christian duty through many measurers of God’s grace. Certainly I have experienced God’s grace in various ways. However, I don’t know that there are not ways other than through Christianity to receive God’s grace.

The reality is that most people, even other than Christians, come from varied and different background experiences in their religious heritage. My GG grandfather was a Quaker minister, my fraternal grandmother a Disciples of Christ, my mother a Methodist. I was exposed to various faiths in growing up, including visiting revivals of the local Pentecostal Holiness Church were we had friends. I don’t know what all these influences may have had on my current day’s beliefs about religion. One thing I am certain: at the age of 13 I made a conscientious profession of faith at my home church, Ebenezer UM. At that tearful monument I knew I was forever committed to a new life in Christ. And it wasn’t that I believed I was a bad person for I was raised with high moral values to know right from wrong and to do what was right. Some may call it a born-again experience but it was not a dramatic experience that many describe as having.
Can one become unsaved? At a coffee group meeting, follow up to our church’s recent Lay Witness Mission Weekend, one lady said that when she had been asked: “Are you saved?” Every one but her was without hesitation answering “yes.” As I stated at the time I can empathize with that hesitation: for daily I must ask myself if I’m fulfilling my Christian duty. I need to be re-born again every day. And it’s not that I do bad things. Could the sins of omission make null my salvation? Once saved, are we always saved? We Methodist say God doesn’t make any mistakes, but some Baptist churches insist on immersion of Methodist members coming to their congregation. We Methodist can make a Baptist a good Methodist by a thorough dry cleaning. My late aunt who was a staunch Baptist and Republican from Mars Hill married my uncle a Democrat and Methodist. Even though she attended the Methodist church with him, she never gave up the necessity of immersion. And of course they rode to the polls together to cancel each other’s vote. I guess that’s the ultimate freedom and tolerance. Matthew 7 1 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
I believe there are inconsequential differences in many of our Christian beliefs –as I say I don’t know about some other faith’s beliefs – but God will be our Judge.
The intention of “One can believe whatever he or she believes and that’s ok with me” was not to forgo one’s Christian responsibility to seek the lost, but more over to the realization that there are many faiths when combined greatly out number Christians. These people in their faith experiences prove just as unrelenting to change. All faiths are call to proselytes, and it’s their freedom in this country. If one believes in the literal interpretation of John 14:6 and that is the only way to salvation, I do believe the burden becomes overwhelmingly incumbent to go into the world to effect conversions. There are approximately 85% Christian in North America and throughout the world Christians are 32.84% (of which Roman Catholics 17.34%, Protestants 5.78%, Orthodox 3.44%, Anglicans 1.27%), Muslims 19.9%, Hindus 13.29%, Buddhists 5.92%, Sikhs 0.39%, Jews 0.23%, other religions 12.63%, non-religious 12.44%, atheists 2.36% (2003 est.) http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/xx.html#People A fertile conversion field (or should I say battlefield) is ready for harvest. In a mission book I read recently, “They're Killing An Innocent Man”, souls can be saved in India for 10 cents per conversion. Matthew 19 16 And behold, one came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do, to have eternal life?” 17 And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to him, “Which?” And Jesus said, “You shall not kill, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, 19 Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man said to him, “All these I have observed; what do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions. (Actually, this passage does speak of good deeds necessary to inherit salvation. Are not good deeds a part of honoring parents and loving our neighbor? And here the John 14:6 restrictive quote of Jesus, where it seems if pertinent to answer the direct question about salvation, was not included.) I don’t see many people wanting to take the literal interpretation of this 21st verse to become the perfect Christian.

· Salvation is by faith only: Romans 3:28: "... man is justified by faith without the [necessity of] deeds of the law."
· Salvation is by works and faith: James 2:24: "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
· Salvation is by works only: Matthew 25:34-45: "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me...Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels..."
· Salvation by faith motivated by love: Galatians 5:6: "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."
So salvation can be defined in various ways. In Jesus’ teachings he made what I call many “over statements” to emphasize His point. You can pick and choose; put more weight on one verse than another. As for me to be able to take the Bible seriously means I cannot always take it literally. I will take it on balance, and try not to put all my trust in one verse to the exclusion of others.

Religious freedoms can only flourish if we have religious tolerance. I see that as a responsibility for all religious people. One may find a better understanding of various religions at the Religious Understanding, Tolerance, and Freedom website, http://www.religioustolerance.org/.

I agree with your statement as follows, but there again how one may interpret the “truth” could affect our course of direction and how we travel the track to achieve what each of us believe through our interpretation of the written pages. We know that one’s “TRUTH” is not necessarily another’s truth. We see and hear examples of this daily in the news, but we must always be in search of TRUTH.
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You say: The Christian message must not be changed, but should be adapted to the taste of the hearer, as well as be suited to his needs. There is imposed on all sincere Christian communicators of the Gospel a duel and a threefold responsibility constraint. We must be true to the truth, but we also must make the truth relevant to the needs of the hearers. We are responsible for presence, proclamation and persuasion. Woe betides us also if we do not allow the New Testament to provide the guidelines of any reform that is needed.
If we can only help improve their circumstances by doing good things for them, and not have the option to proclaim a persuasive salvation message, then we might as well stay home!
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Romans 2:12 All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all.
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You said: It is the desire of God, based on what is written in His Word "all men everywhere come to repentance." That truth coupled with faith is a pre-requisite to being born again and made a new creation in Christ Jesus, old things passing away and all things becoming new, which is the first step toward freedom from poverty. It is called "redemption and lift" To every pagan part of the world where the gospel of Christ has gone civilizations have emerged and people have stopped eating one another and started demonstrating love and kindness to each other.
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Many great advances have been made for “redemption and lift,” as you call it; however, much Christian responsibility remains --- not only for personal salvations but the corporate salvation of humankind.

Where is our salvation when we do not speak out against genocide, gang rape, torture, and horrendous atrocities happening in Africa and other places in the world? Go to http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm Religiously Based Civil Unrest and Warfare to see these documented. “My Christian Faith” calls me to action in whatever I can do to effect change to bring about salvation for humanity. Surely we can’t be blind to what’s going in all parts of the world in this instant technological communication age, but how many sermons have you heard that would lend at least a tone, a pitch, to condemn the intolerance resulting in these grave injustices? One tyrannical power has been disposed, and one can debate the rights and wrongs about that, but until we get to the root cause (religious intolerance) of terrorism there will be no peace. It’s too politically sensitive to discuss these issues rationally for many people. Our society has become so polarized that many good people have become paralyzed to speak out.

Where is the salvation of moderate Muslims when he or she does not speak out against terrorism and intolerance toward other faiths; when they do not speak out against the brainwashing teachings to young martyrs whose supposedly literal interpretation of the Koran think will give them the sure route to a salvation in paradise? To be fair some are beginning to be more forthcoming to acknowledge problems within their faith.

Yes, needless to say, there are differences of belief within our Christian faith. That doesn’t make you or me any less a Christian than one who believes he or she has the one and only whole TRUTH. You will probably never change your views, and that’s ok with me. I will always respect your freedom to believe what you will. Most probably, I will never change my beliefs either. But where there is freedom of religion, free from unjust intolerances, each of us may proselytize in our own way/style to our Christian faith.
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You say: It is God's responsibility to project light and it is man's responsibility to respond to the light projected. Every person on earth has a twofold minimal ground of responsibility, even without a bible or a preacher, and that is the ground of the revelation of God in nature and the conscious of man.
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Yes, and I would add the words of Natalie Sleeth, an excerpt from the Hymn of Promise, which is in my recitation repertoire: “In the bulb there is a flower; in the seed, an apple tree; in co-coons, a hidden promise: butterflies will soon be free! In the cold and snow of winter there’s spring that waits to be, unrevealed until its season, something God alone can see.”

Many people on this earth are in a prison of dark despair where light is seldom if ever projected – where detestable intolerances of human injustices prevail. I pray that God’s light will be projected for all people to seek, listen, and discover their salvation.

Again thanks and best wishes,
Cornell Cox

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A response from JW:

Cornell, Quite a comprehensive article and well researched. Sounds like you are doing a tremendous amount of study and writing, something that few are doing now. You might want to check out this website if you want to do some reading for history.www.atlanta-web-page-design/wesley/Thanks and God Bless,JWPS. I do disagree on the salvation issue. I think you should rethink that in light of Christ's words only, i. e. "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by me", etc. I think to put Islam on level of Christianity based on the promise to Ishmael is a mistake. We really don't know if Islam has any connection to Abraham or Ishmael. As you know, it is a relative recent religion (about 1,000 years it think) and sprang up a long time after the death of Abraham and Ishmael. Their claim to be descendants of Ishmael, either genetically or religiously is based solely on tradition. It may or may not be true.However, even if it is true, the promise to bless Ishmael's descendants does not guarantee that any individual will have salvation just as the promise to the Jewish people, though blessed, they were not individually close to God or guaranteed salvation as a result of heritage.Agree or disagree?JW
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Cornell’s response: Monday, July 04, 2005

Thanks JW. It’s always good to hear from you. I really appreciate the John Wesley website. Is that one setup by you or your church? I have for some years been interested in my faith, to delve more deeply into what I really believe. However, since 9/11/2001 I have more diligently studied the book of my faith and how it relates to other major religions throughout the world. It’s essential (I believe) for all of us to be more introspective in examining our faith beliefs and how we relate to another’s faith.

The question you raise of Abraham’s son Ishmael boils down to: do we want to be intellectually honest about the book, Bible, of our heritage? I am not putting any of the 9,900 religions of this world, some so-called I guess, above or on same level as Christianity. It’s about God’s promise to Abraham for Ishmael. Not that God promised anything more than a great nation for Ishmael, but do you think God intentionally excluded Ishmael’s descendents from a salvation plan? The new covenant of course is for all, but (it seems) God did exclude Ishmael from Abraham’s covenant promise through Isaac. If the Arabian nations (See: http://www.arab.de/arabinfo/arabinfo.htm) where practically 100% of the population is Islamic and other places where Muslims exist, are not the descendents of Ishmael, where might they be? Can you or I more easily prove we are descendents of the covenant through Isaac any more so than you can prove the Islamic or Muslim people are not descendents of Ishmael? [Friend], I believe it’s pretty much general consensus among Biblical historians that the aforesaid are descendents of the Biblical Ishmael. How greater can our, your and my, claim to be a descendent to Isaac be more than tradition?

Islam being founded in 622 CE is of course not as old as Christianity, but then in comparison, to bring it from the time of Abraham, Christianity would only be 592 years older. This is an insignificant time period when counting the thousands of years removal from father Abraham for both lines of descendents. Maybe it’s no coincidence that these are the two largest religions in the world, since the one God that we claim only blessed the ancestry of these two religions. Further – we cannot deny Biblical historical fact, if we are intellectually honest, except that you would under the new covenant by John 14:6 deny a Muslim salvation. If that’s the case, then Christians have a lot of ground to cover.

To quote from the book I am currently reading, Mere Christianity, by C. S. Lewis: “Is it not frightfully unfair that this new life should be confined to people who have heard of Christ and been able to believe in Him? But the truth is God has not told us what His arrangements about other people are. We do not know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him.”

Regardless, Islam is not a movement to be taken lightly. It is projected that at current growth of Islam it will exceed Christianity in the world sometime by mid 21st century. http://www.religioustolerance.org/comp_isl_chr.htm

I am agreeable that you may disagree. What say ye?

Your friend,
Cornell
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Tuesday, July 05, 2005
Thanks Cornell,Very good information. Yes I do believe God has a plan for the whole world and other religions as well, including those who are not exposed to the Gospel. I think this is alluded to in the NT and Old in various places including Paul's writing in Romans, especially the passage in the first of Romans (Chapters 1 through 8) concerning our knowledge of God and the law.However, as to your reference to the tradition of Islam that they Muslims are descendants of Ishmael, I am still skeptical about any ethnic or religious groups claim to a certain biological heritage or exactly who their ancestors may have been. This includes both people who call themselves Christian, Jew or Muslim. Though tradition may "tell" us who they have descended from I am not sure we can trust it. What about the Native American? What about the "Black Jew" of Africa? What about the Roma of Europe whose tradition claims they are descendants from the Mideast? Keep in mind that being a Muslim is primarily a religious distinction not an ethnic one? Though many Muslims are of Arabic decent a tremendous portion, probable more than 1/2 are not Arabic at all. They range from black Africans to white people in Chechnya. Just a being a Jew is primarily a religious distinction as well, not a racial one. So is being a Christian or Muslim. I have a hard time believing that anyone who is termed "Jew" can actually prove they are biologically related to Judah of the Bible or have descended from the tribe of Israel at all. Likewise I don't think that anyone can prove any lineage to Ishmael or any other ancient person. Perhaps you may disagree as many people would and this is fine. I welcome your thoughts on the subject. To me, it really doesn’t matter what a persons biological heritage may be, as they are free to choose any religion they desire. Therefore the tradition of there "ancestors" may not really be there ancient ancestors but only the traditions of there most recent ancestors of one or two generations. The fact that they are not biologically related to the exact people such as Ishmael is really not important. The fact that they believe and follow a religion based on this idea is very important to them.As far as the Biblical references to blessing, are we not all blessed by God? I don't think salvation is in the least bit affected by our ancestry as far as being biological descendants. Paul addressed this in the book of Romans when he asked the question "Who is a Jew"? I believe the answer was that the "real Jew" or person who was blessed by God was the individual who served God, not one born into this or that family. He went on to say they though the Jewish people were blessed of God to have received the law and prophets of God, this was not any guaranteed of individual blessing or favor of God. I would think this would apply to the blessing of Ishmael as well.However, it is great to hear from you and you are doing the Lord's work in study. I enjoy reading your thoughts.JW
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A response from Mitch:

Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 8:53 AM Subject: RE: Religions?

Of course, my argument would be that people who cling to the John passage are worshipping the Bible, not God. They are making the assumption that those words are the actual words of Jesus.

But are they? The Gospel of John claims to contain the words of Jesus, just as the Koran claims to be the words of God dictated to Mohammed via an angel. Which do we believe? How can one claim to have captured the truth about God? To me, that is the height of human arrogance, hubris.

If Elaine Pagels is correct and the Gospel of John was written in response to the Gospel of Thomas, the two gospels represent two radically different Jesuses. Which one is the real Jesus?

Neither and both. They are both interpretations of a person none of us knew. (One of the reasons the early church included three Gospels and not just one is that those leaders wisely recognized that one Gospel gave but one interpretation of Jesus, one picture.)

My Sunday School class was discussing some chapters in the Gospel of Matthew the other week, and some our class members were puzzled over the statement where Jesus talks about telling people to take up their cross and following him. "But isn't this before Jesus is crucified? That doesn't make any sense that he would say such a thing? No wonder his disciples were confused." (Have you ever noticed that Jesus refers to the church in the Gospel of Matthew, but there is no church until after Jesus, and Jesus is clearly not talking about the synagogue. Hmm? Could it be the Bible actually puts words into the mouth of Jesus? Could it be that the Bible makes errors. Read John Shelby Spong's new book The Sins of Scripture.)

Fred Horton, my New Testament professor, once explained to our class that the early church did not make any distinction between the words of Jesus in his earthly form and the words of the risen Jesus. If Jesus is alive and if the end of the age is nigh, it makes no sense to draw such distinctions.

But if we cannot tell which words Jesus uttered are the words of the historical, earthly Jesus and which are the words of the risen Jesus (and the words of the risen Jesus speaking to an individual in a vision), isn't each person's claims to authority equally valid?

Can't I also claim to have heard the words of Jesus in my heart? Are not my revelations as equally valid as that of those who claim in antiquity to be Gospel writers?

Once you understand how the Bible is put together, once you understand that there is no way to ever know if any of the books are what they claim to be, you realize that some people are putting their faith in a book, in a set of interpretations. My faith is not in a book; it is in the living God, a God who cannot be contained by one book, one religion, one set of interpretations.

And who is Jesus in this view, and what do I make of the Gospel claims that Jesus is the Son of God? Jesus has a unique relationship with God. To say that Jesus is the Son of a God is not a biological fact, but a metaphorical or coded attempted to explain the relationship of Jesus to God, that Jesus is somehow more than an ordinary prophet, more than just a teacher.

That does not diminish the power of other teachers and leaders and prophets; I agree with the Gospel of John that there is one God, but there are many paths. John got that one wrong, just as the Bible many times gets many other things wrong. But that's not a problem for me. I don't worship the Bible, a flawed mechanism for understanding the Ground of all Being, the being beyond human understanding.

And my understanding is that if God is a completely benevolent, loving, compassionate God, that God will not condemn anyone who just happens to be brought up in a certain culture and believes differently that I believe.

In his Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity, Bruce Bawer concludes his critique of fundamentalism in this passage:

In Mark Twain's Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, the white boy Huck, feels the "the plain hand of Providence slapping me in the face and letting me know my wickedness was being watched all the time from up there in heaven, whilst I was stealing a poor old woman's nigger that hadn't ever done me no harm." He decides that in order to get right with God and avoid "everlasting fire," he's got to "do the right thing and the clean thing, and go and write to that nigger's owner and tell where he was." He does so, and then feels "good and all washed cleaned for the first time I had ever felt so in my life." But before posting the letter, Huck thinks of Jim. "And got to thinking over our trip down the river; and I see Jim before me, all the time, in the day, and in the night-time, sometimes moonlight, sometimes storms, and we a floating along, talking, and singing, and laughing. But I couldn't seem to strike no places to harden me against him, but only the other kind." He thinks how sweet and good and gentle Jim always is with him, and what a good friend he is. Then Huck looks around and sees the letter he 's written to Miss Watson. I took it, and held it in my hand. I was a trembling, because I'd got to decide forever betwixt two things, and I knowed it. I studied a minute, sort of holding my breath, and then says to myself, "All right, then, I'll go to hell"--and tore it up.

Though his society and its churches, which have set God up as a supporter of slavery, tell him he's wrong to help Jim escape and will go to hell for it, Huck's love and his conscience compel him to help Jim anyway. In the end, by acting in accordance with his love and conscience, Huck does the truly Christian thing. The story offers a useful lesson in the failings of the institutional church, and in the nature of real Christian thought and action. The true disciple of Jesus, Twain tells us here, is not someone who follows church dogma out of fear of hell; it is someone who, in defiance of everything, up to and including the threat of hellfire, does the right thing out of love. It should not be surprising that many people are not only willing but eager to believe in the kind of God who supports slavery or who has a Great Tribulation in store for all but a few of his children. Growing up in a culture fixated on material possessions and on the price tags attached to them can make it easy to believe in a God for whom the afterlife is a matter of cold-blooded dealmaking: Believe in me and I'll give you heaven; refuse and you go to hell. Given how much evil and pain there is in the world, one can hardly fault someone for believing in a wrathful God. But worshipping such a God? Rather than do so, I would suggest that we shake our heads firmly, affirming our allegiance to Jesus, and say with Huckleberry Finn, "All right, then, I'll go to hell."

Such is the kingdom of heaven.

And so many of my fundamentalist brothers and sisters tell me that we must condemn those who do not acknowledge that Jesus is the only way to salvation, because the Gospel of John says so, because the Bible says so, but my heart, my conscience tells me otherwise, and I guess, like Huckleberry Finn, I'll just have to risk going to hell to do what in my heart, I believe is right, that I must accept all people, no matter their beliefs.

Okay, I'll stop preaching now.

Mitch